Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

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Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby LawAdvocate on Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:45 pm

Have a lien it was due on 7/5/17.

EAMS rejected the lien due to insufficient funds on the card to pay the lien filing fee.

My position is they have to get a declaration from the credit card company/bank to prove funds were available. If they fail to do so the lien is out of statute.

The lien holder says they don't have to do so. Other than the usually inadequate training of the lien claimant on the other end of the communications, what am I missing here.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California) (California)

Postby steve appell on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:10 am

I don't think you are missing anything. According to EAMS, the money was not there, and now it's up to the LC to prove EAMs is wrong and the money was there timely. Until they do, they are SOL. I don't believe that "mea culpa" will be a successful in this fact pattern.

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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby vampireinthenight on Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:33 am

Their position is there were funds but the DWC improperly or erroneously rejected it?

I would want some proof of that. Also an explanation why another card was not attempted.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby LawAdvocate on Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:09 pm

Ok, that is pretty much what I said - I want proof that there were funds available in the form of a declaration from a bank/credit card officer.

If there were no funds available, I told them to bounce.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby spreare on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:32 pm

How do you know the transaction failed from lack of funds? You said they need to show that funds were available, but funds were not available? Does EAMS show a transaction code that explains why the failure?
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby 50Cal20 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:58 pm

Come on everyone. Let's get real. We all know this is just a flimsy excuse to get around paying a lien filing fee. It's not going to work. I wouldn't give the lien claimant 2 minutes of my time.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby vampireinthenight on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:17 am

Probably, but if you take that approach you are really throwing yourself at the mercy of a WCJ to see it the way you do. I am curious to what extent it even matters. Unless the lien claimant is misled into thinking it was paid, I'm thinking there is an obligation to cure the issue ASAP, if there even is an ability to cure at all.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby LawAdvocate on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:05 am

Since when do you not defend a valid issue even if it is hours and hours of your time? Absolutely not. You demand the evidence required in writing, then when they fail to provide it - you have an adverse inference defense.

So by failing to give a lien claimant two minutes of your time, you may concede a defense. I owe my client a vigorous defense. I just did not want to get blindsided and that is what I was requested input because sometimes I do not see all of the issues and I felt like I was missing something.

The only time I might not spend hours on something is when the cost of the litigation outweighs resolving the issue, I have a $65K lien here. So I don't think throwing some time into this is unreasonable at all, especially since I think I can win.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby LawAdvocate on Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:07 am

How do you know the transaction failed from lack of funds? You said they need to show that funds were available, but funds were not available? Does EAMS show a transaction code that explains why the failure?


I have the credit card receipt from EAMS that does not evidence that the lien was rejected due to technical issues. It explicitly states - lien rejected as credit card has insufficient funds. Easy peasy. If EAMS rejects something there is always a receipt as to why unless EAMS is unavailable.
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Re: Lien SOL - credit card rejected (California)

Postby 50Cal20 on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:50 pm

We are always at the mercy of a judge not matter what the issue; and often no matter what the law says. If a lien claimant doesn't pay a filing fee that lien should be history. However, judges have been known to "rewrite" laws. In fact, just today it happened where a judge refused to dismiss a lien in one of my cases, even though the newly required lien declaration form had not been filed when it should have. It was filed today at the lien trial instead of prior to 7/1/17. The judge unbelievably made up his own rule on the spot and said the defendant must prove that a late filing of the declaration was prejudicial. If not, he was going to allow the lien to proceed. Like I said, we are at the mercy of judges.
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